Sometimes the White Girl (Or Guy) Isn’t About You (Unconventional Wisdom)

If this picture makes you mad, maybe you should ask yourself a few things. Like, why on earth do you care?

A long crusty time ago in a high school far, far away there was an “epic” schoolyard fight over a boy, a black boy, who was dating a white girl who road my bus. The exact reasons for the fisticuffs have been lost somewhat to history, but I vaguely recall that two black girls decided to take it upon themselves to “jump” the girl from my bus in the stairwell just before school let out.

Perhaps one of the girls used to date the black boy. Perhaps some words had been spoken. But the fight was clearly over the boy and the gall of this particular white girl to date him. So they did confront her in the stairwell and shockingly, the white girl in question actually won the two-on-one fight.

I can still remember her elated face on the bus that afternoon as she talked about the fight in the most hyper voice possible, adrenaline still pumping. Her boyfriend was strangely proud and I was befuddled.

Mostly because I have always thought fighting over a boy, any boy, was dumb, even at 15. It hardly seemed worth it. And while, back then, I thought I understood why a couple of black girls would think it was a “beatdownable” offense for a white girl to date a black guy at our school, I knew the girl on the bus personally and she was a nice person.

I went years not thinking about the incident (which is why my memory of it is so crusty), but one day — and I can’t remember when — I got tired of caring about interracial dating.

More after the jump.

I got tired of ill placed anger at strangers I didn’t know. I got tired of looking at every interracial couple then immediately thinking of my “widdle” feelings. What the hell did these people have to do with me? It wasn’t like they’d met, started dating and married just to personally ruin my day. The insecurity and anger was illogical. Especially considering most of the time I didn’t actually want any of the men who had the white girlfriend or wife. I didn’t even know them. It seemed like a waste of time because …

It wasn’t about me.

I know plenty of black women (and black men to a lesser extent) who were amazingly militant about the whole black-white pairings and are prone to fly into some form of bitterness or rage as if every black-white coupling was a personal affront to their own self-worth. (See anything related to Tiger Woods) Every couple became a moment of doubt to question themselves, then turn and question the couple. It was usually assumed the individual had “sold out” in some fashion or hated black people or themselves or both and were an awful person and that the white person, by association, was some smug interloper sent to make our lives miserable by stealing all the “good” black men from “us.” That the interloper thought they were better than us and special because they had been chosen by this wayward Negro and so the self-hate train would ride into town.

Of course, there was never anyway to verify that these were the cases. They were mere assumptions based on what we’d heard or read or inferred or hoped was true. Because its easier to say “He must hate all women like me” than say “I sometimes lack confidence because I have issues with how I look and feel.” No one wants to openly admit to all those doubts of maybe if I was more (fill in the blank) I would be better accepted, more desirable. Hate spiral is MUCH easier and powerful. You can feel pretty energized after going on a good rant about “no good, self-hating Negroes” and referring to all white women who date black men as “snowflake.”

Black people, despite our best efforts, tend to have some self-esteem issues. For some it’s worse than others depending on what they had to personally endure. But it doesn’t matter how light or dark you are, we all have to deal with some form of dreaded “Negro Derangement Syndrome” beset by growing up as a minority in a majority culture.

Part of that derangement is being routinely told via media and other black people that you are not good enough. Not light enough. Not pretty enough. Don’t have Western features. Aren’t the ideal beauty. With women, this is particularly devastating. Add to that fact that black women tend to be the most dogged about dating and marrying within their race, but are also the least likely to get married, the level of sexual jealousy is extremely high. Often to the point of being unbearable.

It was like everyone I knew was Angela Bassett and this was “Waiting to Exhale” and “Git yo’ shit” was the rallying cry. Everyone had a story of a slight, perceived or real, of abandonment by black men for white women. The most dramatic one I can recall was an old friend from my youth who was madly in love with a biracial man who identified himself as black, got her pregnant, but didn’t want a child so she wound up having an abortion. They would later break up and he would later end up getting a white woman we both knew pregnant. She had the child and he sold his most prized possession, his expensive SUV, to buy a smaller car and his new girlfriend a car of her own.

My friend pretty much died inside, because as insulting as it was for him to have moved on from their relationship so quickly, he’d done it with a dreaded white girl. It made her put in doubt everything about their past relationship and her friends and enemies alike, latched on the white girl part rather than the “Your ex-boyfriend really sounds like an ass” part. Not that she helped it. For some sick reason she still wanted this man. Even though he’d proven to be not dependable and shallow. It was easy to focus on the white girl, who she didn’t know very well and was not within our circle of friends, but it was her ex-boyfriend who’d hurt her. And because he was so shallow he was more than likely to move on and hurt his white girlfriend too (which he eventually did). The man she was crying and fighting over was HARDLY a prize, yet I saw how it destroyed her self-esteem.

I tried to tell her that sometimes, it isn’t about you. That his choices were about him and what he wanted. Her boyfriend treated her badly the whole time they were together. Why would she even want or care what he does? Let the white woman deal with his drama. I found it unlikely that the same guy who wanted one girl to get an abortion was going to be Mr. Liberated and Sensitive Man with the white girl. And he was just as much of a troglodyte with his new girlfriend as he was with the old. She just kept her baby.

She still got stuck with him. Horrible, no good him.

Yet the angst remained.

As an adult I knew black people who struggled with trusting blacks who’d married outside of their race, even if they were still very involved with the community. I befriended a pair of siblings who had both married white people, but were involved in mentoring black students. They loved their spouses and families, but talked about their own problems, like dealing with a daughter who was more drawn to identify with her white mother’s side than her black father’s because of the racism she’d experienced as a child. This bothered her father who wanted his daughter to be proud of being both white and black. They weren’t self-loathing, self-hating black people. They were just black people who happened to have married white people. And they hadn’t actively sought out to marry only white people. They just married people they could relate to. It didn’t make any sense to despise or be judgmental of these couples who became my friends.

Because, again, it wasn’t about me.

I’m not one who talks about interracial dating as the panacea to all the woes of single black women. I think it’s weird when some folks go the full 180 and almost reduce it to a fetish, preaching to the gospel of “date a white man” with the same vigor as those who act like black women are embroiled in some dating war over black men. But then I’m not someone who feels the need to prove how down I am either by saying things like I’m so down that I don’t even find lighter black people with Western features attractive. (A statement I will never quite get. I mean, you’re so not attracted to white people you reject light skinned black people too? Is that based on pre-rejection because you think the light skinned people will reject you for being darker, and if so, isn’t this another “it’s not about you” scenario?)

Taking it personal doesn’t help anyone. If someone dates someone outside of their race it was because they wanted to and not because something is inherently wrong with you (or them for that matter). Even if the person doing the dating outside of their race is of the type who bad mouths other black people, that still has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU. That’s all about them and their own self-loathing.

If I could go back in time and talk to those two girls before they decided to jump the white girl in the stairwell, I would ask them why? Why would you fight over a boy who doesn’t want you and why would you attack the girl when, again, it was the boy who chose her? Why would you risk getting kicked out of school just to stop the inevitable? Some black guys are going to date white girls. Attempting to beat up the white girls will not turn that tide. That boy didn’t belong to you just because you shared the same pigmentation. He wasn’t promised to you.

It’s just not worth it.

People would be better served in building their own self-confidence rather than trying to control the uncontrollable. You’d be better off learning to love yourself than becoming mired in bitterness and hate over that thing that’s not really about you. We all want to be loved and desired, but you’re not going to get it if your too worried about what Becky and ’em are doing with that black guy over there.

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Agree? Disagree? Is there a bigger problem going on here or is it really not about you? Share your comments and opinions below. And if you’re so inclined, you can write the counter-argument to this post, and we’ll pring it here on The Black Snob. This story is part of a series on interesting, unusual, funny and unconventional takes on issues. To see the full list of issues that will be covered, click here. To read past stories, click here.

143 responses to “Sometimes the White Girl (Or Guy) Isn’t About You (Unconventional Wisdom)”

  1. NAGROM Avatar

    Also it seems to me that black women must conform to the European ideal of beauty. When is the last time a white woman had to change something physically about their outer appearance to make them look more black to be considered appealing to society? Although I personally think that I look better and it is easier to manage for me to have a relaxer, why does a black actress have to have straight hair to be casted in a movie? I know that white women color their hair and get plastic surgery and do things to change their physical appearance aswell, but I don’t think that they necesarilly have to do it to the extent that black women have to. Why does a black actress have to get that nose job or wear those contacts? I have often been frustrated with this European standard of beauty.

  2. JannyD Avatar

    I did have this stray thought…which I will like to ask everyone else-‘Would you feel you had failed as a model of femininity and love, if your son did not marry a Black woman?’I heard somewhere that people are attracted to what they love in their appropraite sex parent..is this true?Cos I wonder how I would feel if my son brought home a white woman, I hope I wouldnt be one of those crazy mothers, I really hope…..

  3. NAGROM Avatar

    Danielle, overall i get your point. I have to disagree with you though on some things. First of all, we cannot without a doubt say that black women played no role in their decision for them to not choose us as a spouse, how can you say that without a doubt? Judging by the way society has portrayed us, it probably did play a role and they were either too gulible or too unconcerned to care or question society. The thing that bother most black women is the hatred presented against us by some of these same black men who do choose to date IR. Atleast for me that is why it hurts so much, if they just had a white girlfriend and left me and other black women alone it wouldn’t be so bad, you know, that wound wouldn’t burn as bad.

  4. NAGROM Avatar

    JannyD, I don’t have any kids, but feelings are very personal. What might bother one person, might not even faze another individual. The whole point i was trying to make is that there has to be some sort of underlying issue with that many black men not willing to marry black women.

  5. Spinster Avatar
    Spinster

    Interesting post. Makes sense. I can understand both sides though. And some white women, and some of the black men that they’re with, DO tend to "rub it in" the others’ faces. Now THAT is what I would have a problem with, but even then I wouldn’t fight (I’d probably just think some not-so-nice things). It’s never that serious and there are way too many fish in the sea.

  6. Joelle Avatar

    Thank you for writing this piece. It was wonderful and well thought out!

  7. May B. Day Avatar
    May B. Day

    I think the real problem with BM dating outside the race has more to do with the inequality of interracial dating in the black race. What I mean is there is not nearly as many black women dating interracially as black men. And I don’t necessarily think that problem is because black women don’t want to venture outside of the race. As I stated on one of the blogs before, black women are not approached by white men and other non-black men as much as white women are approached by black men. I’ve never dated outside of my race, but it’s not because I have a preference for black men. I’ve never had the opportunity to date non-black men because I’ve never got the vibe they were interested. This whole hatin’ on black men and white women wouldn’t even be an issue if there were more black women dating interracially.It all has to do with what society has branded into ALL men’s brains. Look at the commercials, television, moovies, videos. If the women aren’t white, they favor white women with their features.End point: If more non-black men approached black women of all shades and colors, black women wouldn’t feel neglected and complain about black men and white women. But, it would be interesting to see how black men would react to see more black women and white men!!!!!

  8. my ex used to be pissed anytime he saw a black woman with a white man.. he used to short out that a black woman belong to a black man..Guess who he cheated on me with around that time… A white woman..I laughed cause he was such a hypocrite.Anyway.. we broke up after 4 yrs together.. He went off to an Ivy league school to do his pHd… changed his whole caribbean accent to some posh british accent… then guess what…After 8 mnths of dating, he’s now engaged to a white woman.The issue is when people spit so much hatred for interracial dating and then rush off and get in one soon as they believe they have "arrived".I have dated all shades in the rainbow… Love has no colour bounds… But I hate when people look down at their own race.

  9. Lady M Avatar

    You know, honestly, Seal doesn’t bug me. Tiger Woods, on the other hand, is an ass. …There’s just something about him. This was a very well written article, and I agree with a lot of it. With interracial relationships, to each his own. If the couple end up surviving until that 25th wedding anniversary, then kudos, especially in this day and age when couples divorce after a few years, if that. But I don’t think it’s bad to have preferences. For all the black women saying we must date outside the race and all, some black women just don’t want to. Is it so bad to want someone with shared cultural experiences, similar likes and dislikes, etc? Not that a black and white person can’t have the same "culture", per se, but you get what I mean. Personally, I am not interested in dating other races. Whether or not that will change in the future, I can’t say.

  10. Lady M Avatar

    Just an observation: The comments section has blown up, as anything involving interracial dating always seems to.

  11. @als simmonswhere do you meet these people? the dude sounds psychologically damaged. maybe I’m picky with who I associate with, but I could never be friends with, let alone date, someone with so much self-hatred/self-doubt – especially now as an adult. Again be grateful that he, and his fake accent, are no longer a part of your life!

  12. Lady M: "For all the black women saying we must date outside the race and all, some black women just don’t want to. Is it so bad to want someone with shared cultural experiences, similar likes and dislikes, etc?"You brought up a good point Lady M. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting to date someone for your culture. At the same time, there are so many black women who are lonely and don’t have a mate. The pickings are slims for the brothas in their area. What should they do? Sit at home and wait? The circumstances in our community are changing. Sistas’ eggs are drying up because they’re waiting for a black man. That’s not good. And people keep bringing up white men. WHITE MEN AREN’T THE ONLY OPTION. There are Latinos, Asians, Native Americans, etc.

  13. @ Wenzel: It works both ways. SOME sistas did go through their Thug Luv phase. When I was school I was a geek. A cute geek if I say so myself ๐Ÿ™‚ But the cool, smart guys wanted the super-popular girls who liked the thugs. They passed up the cool geeks. And the whole "bw liked thugs when I was in school, so I don’t date them" argument is an excuse. Sometimes I was overlooked by the hot guys in school and that didn’t stop me from dating black men. Wenzel, did you pass up the cool, ordinary girls b/c you were always trying to get the hot chick?

  14. @ meyou’d be suprised there are plenty of misguided ppl like that out there…

  15. ZooPath Avatar
    ZooPath

    @ Cocoa fly:I was one of the nerdy girls, too. For some reason a lot of nerdy guys want the hot girls. It’s like other people should stop being superficial but I don’t have to be. *eyeroll* Anyway, I never wasted energy hating on BM WW interracial couples. Is a lot of it based on racist ideas about BW, sure…. I can’t change that so I put my energy into finding someone who is interested in me. You gotta take your business where it’s appreciated. @ Wenzel: Please think of a better excuse next time, the Mike Jones one is boring. Also Obama does not equal bus driver. Obama equals poor grad student with no car and still living in student housing at 25. If someone chooses a thug over a guy like that then he or she deserves what they get.

  16. Hank Nasty Avatar
    Hank Nasty

    Before I married a black woman (I’m a black man), I met a few white and Hispanic girls I would have liked to date(and I think would have wanted to date me), but didn’t because of the racial implications. Looking back, I actually wish I would have, just to have actually lived up to the "colorblind" rhetoric I often espouse.

  17. starrie Avatar
    starrie

    15 years ago seeing this would probably pissed me off to no end. as i’ve gotten older and realized that what consenting adults do is really none of my business and life goes on. the only thing that does annoy me are the men and some women too that feel it’s necessary to screech about how they won’t date a black woman /man because of blah, blah…i’m pragmatic about things…date whoever you want as long as it makes you happy…you have nothing to prove to me or to anyone else…

  18. Heh. Today in the Wachovia ATM, I saw a white guy snogging one of the most gorgeous, dark-skinned sisters I’ve ever seen in my life.And lo it was good.Me, I seem to attract Germans. I don’t look for them — they appear. Go figure. People are people, and we need to be responsible for our own self-esteem. Black women, men DO love us, all kinds of men, and it’s not always about "exotic fruit of the month," either.We are beautiful. Believe it. Own it. Live it.

  19. rikyrah Avatar
    rikyrah

    I’m not fond of IR relationships, but I do admit, there’s something about Seal and Heidi that just doesn’t raise the hackels…ya know? Now, Mr. Cablinasian….well, side eye 24/7

  20. Wenzel Dashington Avatar
    Wenzel Dashington

    I don’t have a bit of hate against anyone of any sex, race or creed. My lesbian friends scratch their heads with me trying to figure out women. I consider myself pretty in tune. Sometimes, women simply don’t see themselves as men do. If I say what men think, don’t get mad. Getting mad doesn’t promote understanding.I’ll end on nobody cared about who Seal Henry Olusegun Olumide Adeola Samuel or Eldrick Woods was dating.

  21. travelgirl Avatar
    travelgirl

    Thanks @Mac for that reminder. I went to an all black university and then transferred to a predominantly white one on the west coast. I am dark skinned and am quiet and had female friends that happened to be light skinned but were very nice quiet and low key like me. I really felt bad when guys would always specifically try to get with my friends when a group of us that were all shades of brown would be walking together and a guy would call out "hey redbone" because they were light skinned. I was not aware of the hunger of black American men for lighter skinned women at the time I was 19, but was really hurt by it. I have had one ex boyfriends who told me to stay out of the sun as a jokeand another ex boyfriend who always commented on the beauty of light skinned women and married a light skinned woman (who he now hates) last I heard from him. I lived in London for several months and noticed that there was such a large amount of black men with white women and felt like "what is going on here!!!!!!?????" I had seen mixed couples in the US of course but I don’t think anyone can argue that the black man (non-black woman) ratio is SOOOOOOO much higher. Than men of other races dating and or marrying black women. It really makes you think about that and wonder why it is so uneven I think Asian, and Latino, African Caribbean and black European men are fine too. Chiwetel Edjifore (Black British Actor) is my pick if I could have him!!!!!My hope is that black women embrace their beauty and date more than just white men when they want more options

  22. travelgirl Avatar
    travelgirl

    @Cocoa Fly I love that point!!!!!!!! White men are NOT the only other option besides black men.I hate the way this is portrayed. I like men of color

  23. travelgirl Avatar
    travelgirl

    @ALS SimmonsRegarding Caribbean men and AfricanThat is really strange about your ex getting the accent and all but he wanted to fit in with the Brits I guess.I also felt that some of the African or Caribbean men are trying to secure their social, financial and possibly visa immigration status when in Europe by Dating, getting pregnant, or marrying a white a white woman.We know their home countries are hard places for black men to succeed

  24. ThoughtForToday Avatar
    ThoughtForToday

    Good topic-and you have an interesting take on this issue. The picture of the very wealthy black men married to white women doesn’t make me mad, but it would sure as hell make my sister mad! LOL! The first thing she would ask is "why does a black man have to go out and get a white woman when he becomes successful?" She would say that "we" need black men to help raise these black children, and the wealthy ones don’t want "us". No matter what I say about the many, many successful black men that are married to black women, she insists that they really want white women-Really! She’s a trip! I listen to her, and I’ve even said "Amen" to some of her ravings, but it’s clear that in the case of black women, the anger comes from a lack of self-confidence. Because as you even said, as a minority living in a majority society that is constantly putting you down, it can be hard work to be the beautiful black woman that you are. So, black women work harder to look and feel good, despite the nagging thoughts, and then when they see a picture like this, they may take it personally and feel a setback in their efforts to be feminine, beautiful, and loving. I have my pet peeve, too, about this situation although it doesn’t make me angry anymore. I can’t stand black men who are interviewed in the media and then say things like "I don’t date black women because (fill in the blank with some stupid BS)" – I mean, I don’t care why you hate black women. Furthermore, I think it is stupid because it does show self-hatred. Most animals like animals that look like their mothers-what’s up with humans? LOL! Keep up the good work! This issue needs to be dealt with and laid to rest once and for all!

  25. J Boogie Avatar
    J Boogie

    My grandmother used to say white girls approached black men with panties in one hand and a dish rag in the other. I know black people that have gravitated toward white mates, because their mother was a self loather of her race (hair and the like) and passed that ideology on to her kids who then married white women. I thing there is some self loathing involved whether it is unconscious or conscious on the part of the black person choosing the white mate.

  26. RainaHavock Avatar
    RainaHavock

    Great topic Snob. Now perosonally I guess being a girl who came of age in the New millinium I never really cared about IR dating. Now I’m not going to lie when I saw black women with white men I would take another look. Usually because it was rare to see but I don’t do that now. I didn’t start dating till I got in college and is now currently dating a black engineering major which is werid because my first boyfriend was also an engineering major. (No I don’t ciricle the Engineering building looking for them.) XD I just love guys who share my interest since I met both of them at my Anime club. Now as for IR dating I usually be hearing about white men this and white men that. Like other posters said before it’s not all about white men! I’m not even attracted to white men(Okay maybe Johnny Depp and few others) but still usually the men I am attracted to are more "Ethnic" looking. I love men with dark hair and eyes. That’s who I’m attracted to and like I said before you shouldn’t make me try to date IR by saying things like I’m going to end up alone because if I don’t. I thinking IR dating should happen naturally not because you’re looking for a non-black man or woman but because you just happen to fall in love with a person of another race.

  27. Soapbubble Avatar
    Soapbubble

    What I find irritating about BM who date WW are the ones who claim that their WW acts just like a BW: She can cook, she got meat on her bones, she listens to so and so, etc. What I don’t understand is why would you want a fake dollar when you can have a real one?

  28. Great post. I know black women who date white men and still get pissed when they see a black man with a white woman. haI feel we don’t know them, it’s none of our business. However, I get the Tiger issue as he seems to hate black people and would never be with a black women. That is self hatred and his issue.I live in Italy so I have if I didn’t date IR I would be out of luck. Almost all of the black men in my city are married Africans. When I lived in L.A. I got NO love from the brothers. Zero. I’m dark with a natural. Meanwhile white guys were asking me out. I never dated IR until moving to the west coast despite growing up in the ‘burbs and going to a large predominately white university. I understand why some American sisters take it personally. I’m not sure if things will change anytime soon. It’s tough out there for professional black women. We don’t have the same options as white, asian or latino women. We just don’t.

  29. For all the black women saying we must date outside the race and all, some black women just don’t want to.I’ve had this conversation with women before. Just don’t assume that because you only want a black man that they’re going to feel the same way. They are under no obligation to do so. Black men are out there fucking the rainbow, and black women are sitting at home on Saturday nights picking lint out of their navels. Then getting pissed off because black men are leveraging their options. Seems illogical to me. *shrugs* But if they like it, I love it. @Cocoa Fly I love that point!!!!!!!! White men are NOT the only other option besides black men.That depends on where you live. Asians in any large quantity are pretty much limited to the coasts, and some parts of Texas. Latinos are more numerous, but still clustered in certain regions of the country. For the rest of the majority of the country, it’s still pretty much black folk and white folk. I just moved from probably the most diverse city in my state, and I would see an Asian person maybe once a month, and that was only at the mall. I rarely saw a single Latino in my age demographic. Presumably they tend to marry early. Personally, I believe in casting a wide net, at least as it pertains to race.

  30. I really enjoyed the post Danielle. And you’re right sometimes it isn’t about us. But I would like to interject that the uneasiness that some Black women may feel can stem from abandonment issues; especially if you grew up without a father or any loving dependable Black man. We often hear about the effects of Black boys growing up without fathers, yet it’s infrequent that this topic is focused on the effect it has on daughters. True, when confronted with a BM/WW relationship and feel it’s an affront to you personally is misplaced anger, resentment, and lack of esteem. But because the sense of abandonment manifests itself in this way shows that roots of it go deep.

  31. Danielle you seem to be delving a lot into this interracial thing of late. What gives?Pray tell…..

  32. J Boogie, thank goodness you said it first. No one else commenting on this blog wants to see the 300 pound gorilla in the room which is that some black mother’s self loathing of her afro hairtype, dark skin colour and african features gets passed on to her kids and that the sons are in the unique position in today’s integrated society to act on it and ensure that the woman in his life looks nothing like his own mother. This is not to condemn all IR relationships, it’s just that for a good proportion of them, the BM haven’t so much fallen in love with a WW, but more realistically have fallen in hate with black women in general.

  33. Just a few comments….1. As much as some of us say that it doesn’t matter, love knows no color, it’s none of your business…blah, blah, blah, then please explain the kool-aid grins we all get when we see Barack and Michelle getting their PDA on. 2. I think it’s very interesting that for some the solution to the so-called "Black Women’s Dating Problem" is to date a white man. Well, guess what? There are a lot of sistas that have been screwed over by white men: Shar Jackson, Diahann Carroll, Josephine Premice, Dorothy Dandridge, Tonya Pinkins…..and the list goes on. So, it’s obvious that they are not the saving grace, so does that mean we should go lesbian? 3. I think slapping Black women who disapprove of IR relationships with the jealous label is validating the myth of white women being the epitome of beauty. 4. I think this whole "Black women can’t find a date or get married" meme is nothing more than the latest white media, Willie Lynch mind fuck to drive a further wedge between Black men and Black women. There are plenty of Black men out there. I just think they’re being passed over for superficial reasons. As much as many of us love Barack and Michelle’s relationship, a lot of sistas would’ve passed over his poor, hole in the car floor having arse, Michelle saw pass that. 5. Tiger Woods sucks.

  34. I’m so glad for posts like this. I’m sure some of you Black Snobs feel like you’re talking among yourselves, but as a white woman I do feel welcomed at this table, and I’m grateful to have an opportunity to try to understand what my black counterparts feel without a front being put up to block me out.Sorry in advance for the wall-of-words… The thing that most breaks my heart is what a few women have commented about feeling like nobody wants you — the little black girls choosing the white doll, BM trash-talking BW (lee’s guy in the elevator!), NAGROM’s point about how the media paint even Michelle Obama as angry and bitter, what May B.Day said about not getting approached by white men. And yes to what msladee said about not adding to the self-hate by hating herself for feeling the way she does! But like RCA said, change starts with examining WHY you feel badly.One thing — I totally agree with the sisters who complained about society’s standards of beauty. It’s not just white media, either — I picked up an Essence mag at a doctor’s office last year and paged through the entire thing looking for one image of a woman with natural hair, there was NOT ONE. To me, some of the most beautiful black women (and men) are some of the darkest, full lips and all, and I am all about natural hair (texture’s not an issue with my own hair, but still — I love my salt and pepper). Just off the top of my head, Lauryn Hill is one of the most beautiful women I know. As for body shape, that too — OK, I’m a white woman with a black butt LOL — I’ve learned to love it, OK? But seriously, I would much rather have my curves than a model’s too-skinny shape, and yet, if tall and willowy is your natural body type, rock that too! Vive la difference! I guess that’s what it comes down to, for me — beauty is about celebrating and working with what God gave YOU, uniquely.As for white men not coming on — OK, culture alert — white men don’t come on like black men do. White men are (stereotypically speaking, but still) not willing to put themselves out there to be turned down. They will check you out very coolly, and chat you up very casually, they will NOT give the vibe that they’re interested until you at least show you’re willing to have a conversation with them — about school or work, or something impersonal. Unless you’re in a singles bar, in which case conversation is not what he’s interested in and you might as well skip it. Also, the story out around town is that black women don’t believe in IR dating, so he’s EXTRA not going to put it out there until you show you’re at least willing to give him the time of day in a friendly, not romantic, way. All this said from the perspective of a 42-year-old in a very diverse city, who has dated black, white, latino, arabic, native, etc. YMMV, especially if you are younger or live somewhere less diverse.Last point — D and JannyD, both mentioned BM with WW looking at them like they want some affirmation, and not feeling like giving it to them. OK, well, whatever you feel is personal, but if I were them I guess I’d be wishing for affirmation, too. I have to say I often feel kind of proud of IR couples — serious couples, ones who obviously really care for each other — because they are willing to put up with some random hostility and rejection, a lot of it from black women. It’s got to be a strain. I never dated a black man seriously enough to have to deal with his family, but I know if I did I would be apprehensive about how his relatives, especially female, would accept me. If you do wish them well, I can see how a smile and a nod from a total stranger BW would help.Last last point — I totally understand about wanting to date within your culture, both to celebrate and perpetuate your culture and to be understood and able to relate to the guy. Let me just throw this out there — I was married to a Salvadoran guy for a while (OK, it didn’t last but for different reasons). I never appreciated my culture so much until I saw it through his eyes. I was like Michelle Obama, never felt proud of my country in my adult life, but he showed me my country in a different light. I’m still critical of our faults, but I have more appreciation for the goodness. Just saying … if you find someone who appreciates difference, individual and cultural, it can actually bring you closer to your own culture.peace out

  35. @ LiliThis is my first time writing a lengthy post about IR in a while actually. (I think the last one had something to do with Harold Ford Jr.), but the topic has come up repeatedly on the Hot Topics page, posted by other readers. I know there was another story between the Harold Ford one and this one, but I honestly can’t remember what it was about. It indirectly came up in regards to the chairman of Citigroup who cheated on his wife, but I don’t think I’ve written that much about it personally. No more than I write about dating in general.

  36. politicallyincorrect Avatar
    politicallyincorrect

    As much as some of us say that it doesn’t matter, love knows no color, it’s none of your business…blah, blah, blah, then please explain the kool-aid grins Especially on this blog, people going crazy over Michelle and Barack holding hands and going on a date. Am I the only one who doesn’t think its that serious. There are a lot of black couples out there and we don’t need validation from CNN.

  37. Thanks for the clarification Danielle. Anyway, regardless of motive – these topics desperately need to be discussed out in the open so to speak. Just look at the volume of comments.@Politically incorrect. It may well be that there are plenty of portrayals of loving black couples out there but fact is for there to so much emoting about this SHOWS that for many it is still rare. Can’t argue with the obvious. If it was not considered that big a deal by many it would not then be…that big a deal.

  38. JannyD Avatar

    @Regina,I appreciate your perspective on the conversation. But how will my ‘withholding’ my approval make a difference. It is not my place to validate anyone’s relationship. I don’t know them. If I was their mother, sister or friend, I would know them both and I would be more than happy to celebrate their joy at finding someone to love, becuase at the end of the day that is what counts. But as a stranger, how can I give them anything and why should they care? I dont walk in the streets asking anyone to validate me or my relationships (even though when I was dating my Iranian bf there was plenty censure to go around) why should I now be walking around grinning at strangers….I am not hostile, but I am also not your friend, I am just another human passing by you like happens everyday.The other thing is I have had more than my fair share of merely making eye contact with some such couple and having them give me the stank eye or clutch each other tightly because apparently my seeing them in my line of vision threatens their love. Needless it is to say, now I make sure I have my shades on, and I keep my eyes buried in a book.I almost feel like what some people CANNOT bear is the indifference. The get their rocks off when they tell themselves they are with some Black man that every Black woman wanted or that every Black woman is crying herself to sleep because Mr Black dude left the team, then when they see you minding your business (perhaps looking mad cute) then they are pissed because you don’t give a rat’s ass.

  39. @JannyD, I do understand your point, and no, it’s not your job to validate them. I’m just saying that anyone in an IR relationship (at least, BM-WW) probably gets a lot of random hostility from strangers, specifically (but not only) black women. That has to be hard to take. To me, showing friendliness to someone who expects negativity is just … I don’t know, I hope it’s healing to someone. Like I might make a point of being overtly respectful-friendly walking past a group of young black men on a street corner, because too many white people (or black people, for that matter) would cross the street just randomly assuming they’re up to no good. And that sinks in, it’s got to hurt young black men to know that strangers fear them by default. So I try to make sure they KNOW this white woman assumes they are good honest people unless they prove otherwise. Same thing … IR couples probably expect hostility from strangers, so an unexpected smile from a stranger would be a healing thing.Just an opinion.

  40. Maybe it’s just the fact that our society has been conditioned to be very individualistic but I most certainly dont smile at random ppl in the street. lol Part of me feels that going out of my way to smile at an IR couple would be VERY uneccesary, I dont know them, they dont know me, lets keep it moving. Besides, for all my good intentions, said couple mght just walk away thinking I’m some sort of stalker creep. At least I know that’s how I would feel so deriving ‘healing’ from strangers for ME seems a bit of a strech :/. I say let them be

  41. JannyD Avatar

    @ReginaThat is actually a lovely sentiment. However, I wonder if your experinece doing this would not be different from mine. I fear that these couples sometimes see Black women as their adversary (perhaps for legitimate reasons). It is no secret that there are many white women who do not feel any particular kindred feminine experience with me. (If they did shows with black casts would not be pigeon-holed because every one would be able to identify with them) In the same vein, some Black men see their willingness to date inter-racially as some special gift that makes them better evolved than I am. My smiles may only serve to make them even more uncomfortable. Hey maybe it is not that deep. Maybe every Black woman they met before me was hostile so they have their guard up. But for whatever reason, I feel like these couples want to be left alone more than they want to be smiled at. I feel like smiling at them will make them feel like a curiosity. Since love knows no color, thier love should not be afforded special treatment. I dont smile when I see two Black people or two white people hanging out, if I do it when I see an Inter-racial couple, then I am being a hypocrite. The truth is you have to care to react one way or the other, and I stopped caring a long time ago. It is still a lovely mental exercise for me but when all the motivations on all sides have been parsed and dissected the truth remains that people will do what and who they like, whether you are happy or bitter on the sidelines. Might as well get to minding your own biz…..

  42. OK.So here’s an unrelated question — what’s different about Seal and Heidi Klum? It seems like readers here agree with rikyrah? said: "I’m not fond of IR relationships, but I do admit, there’s something about Seal and Heidi that just doesn’t raise the hackels…ya know?" Do you think maybe it feels a little more neutral because neither one of them is American?Just curious, that really jumped out at me from the comments.

  43. Well put JannyD. I have never met a white woman who went out of her way to show me support, if anything I either get indifference or outright hostility. In my experience, white women tend to be competitive or hostile if an attractive female of another race is in their vicinity. Also in my experience some of the BM involved tend to go out of their way to get your attention, obviously hoping for a reaction. They don’t get what they want ‘cos frankly I do not care who you’re sleeping with. I say people should mind their darn buisness and if some random stranger smiled at me and my bf on the street I would think they were deranged. The bottom line- IRR relationships should NOT be treated any different from other kinds.

  44. hmmm

  45. BrokeandCopa Avatar
    BrokeandCopa

    I personally don’t mind Heidi and Seal I think they truly love each other. I think that’s the most important thing at the end of the day. Tiger …lol well I’m taking the 5th on that one ! To go back a few I don’t think it’s always that black women go for gangsters , thugs, or just plain losers with no goals in life. I just feel that certain black men are overlooked by black women. I remember in college the ones that were always chased played sports or were in a fraternity and to me seemed to be the typical jocks and a holes. (yes plenty of people who do these activities are not!) I went to the wrong schools I guess = ) I think sometimes being different gets you labeled as weird or many other things I have heard growing up. I think its also a challenge for black men to realize black women are just as beautiful, intelligent, and, even tempered as any other race of women. It makes me feel sad when I hear black men say they will never go out with a black woman because they have too much attitude. Yet some black men chase the girl with the "black girl" features and still will not go out with black women. Sometimes generalizations and misunderstandings can really kill something before it begins. Like Dap said in School Daze WAKE UP !!!!!!!

  46. @ JannyD and LIli, i agree that IR relationships shouldnt be treated any different. If more ppl adopted that atitude, perhaps it would cease to produce such debate.I think Heidi and seal are adorable. I cant really say why, From the outside looking in I just get a really honest vibe from both of them. These are two ppl who love each without pretense. Their family is beautiful! For some ppl it could also be the fact that this isnt a case of a successful black man finding a white stripper/throphy wife yada yada. Heidi is a very accomplished woman in her own right ๐Ÿ™‚

  47. AlexG Avatar

    Yeah like Regina can someone explain to me why sisters don’t have a problem with Seal and Heidi? Just the opposite, all you hear is what a wonderful couple they make. The only reasons I can figure out why is because;1) Black women don’t want to admit it but they consider him too dark and ugly so for them it’s no loss2) He’s not an African -American so once again it’s no loss3) As a singer he’s never been exactly on the radar for most black people. If he was, say, someone like John Legend it would be a different matter. Then again I believe Legend himself just got engaged to someone not black but I haven’t heard anything negative comments about thatAnd while we’re talking about singers, why did Usher got so much flack from black women after he married his wife? Se’s a dark skinned, older woman with kids from a previous marriage and you would think sisters would be overjoyed. Instead she got nothing but abuse

  48. RainaHavock Avatar
    RainaHavock

    @We shall overcome: I love your post! I agree! Black women need to remember that snakes come in all different colors not just black. Also you’re right they’re are plenty of decent black men very interested in sistahs. I go to an HBCU so I’ve had alot of young black gentlemen come up and talk to me. I’m off the market now but still they are out there. ๐Ÿ™‚ Plus I would like to add my parents both black and educated have celebrated 20 years this past week and they act just like Michelle and Barack.

  49. Kendra Avatar

    My advice to all Black women: DATE WHITE MEN!!! Their penises aren’t small and they’re great people too. Don’t limit yourselves to black men. They really aren’t worth it. Just sayin’………………..

  50. Monica Avatar

    @Heidi and Seal For me, Heidi has had well publicized relationships with men who were not hunks (I could swear I read somewhere that she said that she doesn’t go by looks). It’s obvious that she is looking for something more than what’s on the surface. Add to that she could have rested on hers laurels and spent her life posing in bras and panties, but she used that as a springboard for other pursuits. What it comes down to for me, I don’t care one way or the other about brother Seal. I just like Heidi.

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