Blog Asks “If Michelle Was White.” More Like Could Harold Ford Jr. Get Elected Dogcatcher In Blackland?

The Chicago Tribune’s Exploring Race blog has posed the question “What if Michelle Obama was white?” This “well, duh” question has already been explored by most black blogs and the universal answer is that he wouldn’t have even been a senator, let alone president.

But they asked anyway, you know, for poops and giggles I suppose and they will likely get some passionate responses (and passionate responses to those responses), but the reality is despite all of our progress in the better acceptance of interracial couples, it’s hard to get elected to office when you are a black person married a white person.

Case in point: Former Tennessee Rep. Harold Ford, Jr. who I wrote about earlier this year. A member of our quasi “black aristocracy” (as in he comes from a political family of influence and means), Ford reached prominence on his family name and good looks, then ran a campaign for the senate where he lost by a narrow margin. Some say he was hurt by his religious pandering. Others say he was hurt by a Republican backed commercial that portrayed Ford as a white woman chasing, playboy bunny hound.

Which was kind of, sort of true, but mean/racist because what did that have to do with being a senator? Then Ford married Emily Threlkeld and ALL. KINDS. OF. HELL. broke loose in “Blackland.”

Comments from Big Head DC’s blog:

“I think he has not given his political career any thought. If he runs for any office again, surely he won’t win. You don’t carry the black vote and marry white. I will never vote for him again.”– Pat, Memphis

“The reason so many blacks are upset is because Harold Ford Jr. has always courted the black vote and black people except when it comes to his marriage. I am sure when he is running for office and goes into the black neighborhoods he will not take his white wife along. This also gives black women the assumption that as black men progress their appreciation of black women decreases. It also gives the impression that they are saying “I have made it and here is my trophy”!!!!!” — Connie, Memphis

“The only use Harold had for blacks period in the 9th Congressional Dist was votes. After 10 years of his representation we ALL need Anus Reconstruction Surgery. He did a number on us. This young man took Self Serving Politician to a new level.” — Anonymous

And there is this long, over-the-top, angry note which pretty much sums up how well this all went over with some blacks. It essentially accuses Ford of treason, then slaps him around for a perceived slight against Martin Luther King, Jr.:

This couple had the nerve to have their engagement party on MLK’s 40th anniversary marking his assassination in Memphis. This was very disrespectful to the dead leader and to the community. It was insensitive and disrespectful to have an engagement party on this day at all. However adding injury to insult, MLK and his black wife did not make the sacrifices that they did so that well off black men can marry white women as trophies. (Seventy) of black families are being raised by single mothers, which is leading to the deterioration of the country as a whole. Children who are abandoned by their fathers are becoming negative statistics and impacting the entire society. Many black men do not value black women enough to marry them and raise their families, partially due to the after effects of slavery and the medias propaganda that white women are more desirable and should be valued. As a politician this man is supposed to be a role model, by this action he is setting the example that well off black men should abandon their responsibilities to their communities and marry trophy white women who should be valued more than black women. His fiancée is an unattractive woman, with a seemingly mediocre background and would probably never have married an attractive well off man of her own race. So one would get the impression that this is not love, but that he is showcasing a white “trophy” on MLK’s anniversary, which is the height of disrespect and in my opinion shows that he is brainwashed, confused and needs deprogramming. Many people view this marriage as political suicide.

You don’t have to be an sociologist or a psychologist to figure out that despite our progress there are a still a lot insecurities in the black community and nothing brings them out more passionately than that shunted feeling black people (especially black women) get when black men who “make it” marry outside their race.

When you’re used to getting kicked around it’s hard not to take it personal. Even I get that feeling from time-to-time and I like to considering myself pretty egalitarian about the issue. I’m almost two people about it with the logical side of my brain saying people should be judged by their character and can marry whomever they want because their marriage is about them, not me and I wouldn’t want someone nosing in my personal business, casting judgment on my intentions.

But my gut wants to strangle Elin Woods.

It’s insane because Tiger Woods is not my personal property, so what do I care? Yet I do. This is because I grew up watching black women get unceremoniously dumped all the time. Or seeing them not in the running at all as viable mates. I can’t help it. I take it personal, but I temper my response, my logic reminding me that this is NOT about me.

Plus, being a trophy wife isn’t exactly an ideal thing, considering a lot of it is hedged
on your appearance, but it’s the wanting to be desired that gets us. Everyone wants to be desired. Everyone. Especially black women. Hence why being married to a white person, particularly a black man married to a white woman, is a death knell to getting the black vote.

Black women and older black voters make up the bulk of the black vote and they are the ones most likely to not approve due to that giant “I’ve been personally affronted!” feeling they would have every time they’d see someone like Emily Threlkeld’s smiling face. And any smart person running against someone like Ford would use this rift against him, never quite saying he was a sell-out, but would repeatedly question his loyalty to his constituents, arguing that Ford would only serve his own interests, not that of the community.

It just wouldn’t work. All things aren’t that equal in Blackland yet.

Not that white people are 100 percent comfortable with this notion either. There’s a reason why a lot of politicians are as personally boring as possible (straight, married to someone who is not “exotic” in any kind of way, Christian, usually with some kids), because that’s what voters what. There are exceptions to the rule (Jeb Bush is married to a Latina — but then he was governor of Florida, so that probably helped him), but for most politicians the rule of the day is to be married, preferrably within their own ethnicity and religious sect, be Christian, be heterosexual and not to have any kink in the closest that could come out to haunt them.

(Like paid hookers or interns or Euro sex clubs or nasty text messages or cocaine or secret half-black, out-of-wedlock children or male pages or hook-up trolling in airport men’s restrooms.)

None of that stuff. Can’t have it. Americans are both notorious freaks and prudes all at the same time, hence all the politicians have to at least be able to appear as close to June and Ward Cleaver as possible. People want the fantasy. They will vote for the fantasy.

For many in Blackland, a white woman is simply not part of that fantasy.


172 responses to “Blog Asks “If Michelle Was White.” More Like Could Harold Ford Jr. Get Elected Dogcatcher In Blackland?”

  1. Anonymous Avatar

    I am a black woman whose best friend is a black guy(he has a black girlfriend). He was saying to me how he didnt want me to end up with a white guy and I had to remind him how EVERY single time we go out with friends ONLY white guys appoach me. Where am I going to find this magic kneegrow if he doesn’t want me. I want to be wanted. I dont want some kneegrow to be with me as some booby prize because he was trying to earn his ‘black’ card. So bring on the non-black guy. If he treats me like a priceless Farbage egg then I am with him. This is why Black women love PE Obama. Not just because he married a chocolae sister but because he is IN LOVE with her and he doesnt hide her like a dirty secret and he wants the whole world to see her and the love children they have together.P.S. This reminds me of Lionel Richie. Notice how we never see the full Black kids he had with his first wife? We only see Nicole Richie and the white wife’s kids. DAMN.Personally I think that it isnt our ‘hotness’ that Black men are rejecting but the product of our wombs. They want that ‘good hair and light skin’ for their kids and apparently all we can produce are ‘nappy headed’ babies so they are choosing to pass.P.P.S I remember the first time I went out with this friend, he couldn’t believe the number fo white guys who approached me…. apparently even Black men have bought the hype that no-one wants Black women. This is why I had a party when Halle Berry got her white baby daddy. I am just waiting for Gabrielle Union and Sanaa Lathan to do the same……It gives me a secret childish thrill when the black women that Black men want ditch them…Childish but whatever….

  2. “Here is the thing… our men actually want to be our men… when floating in troubled waters anyway.”And? This is germane to us how?

  3. Anonymous Avatar

    I think there is a competitive streak with men where they want the women that they are with to be seen as a price. Unfortunately black women are not portrayed as anyone’s price in society so perhaps going for ‘Heidi Montag’ is like wanting to have that Lexus that every man is jealous of…I dont know. I think that is why even when Black men are with Black women these women have to be flawless….I have also had some Black guys tell me that they date white women to spite white guys, getting one back for all those lynched Black men I guess…Personally I think that Ellin suits Tiger, every rich athlete wants a hot trophy wife and she fits the bill period…What I cant stand are the ugly white women who know that no-one will want them but successful black men, that annoys me. I swear sometimes it looks like there was a sale at ‘Get an ugly white wife’ mart.

  4. Damn… this is a hot topic.

  5. I’ll say that as I get older, this matters to me less. “The black family” may have always been a mythical construct anyway — if I’m lucky enough to marry and raise a family, just them being good and healthy and happy will be enough for me. I’m going to try not to put any pressure on myself, or my imaginary kids, to uplift the race.I do get a thrill when I see Michelle and Barack together, but the most important thing to emulate there is the love and respect, not the racial makeup.I agree that this is work that needs to be done one woman at a time. And I need to work on myself, because like I said earlier, I still get those “twinges.” Maybe our loyalty to black men is misplaced: we should be loyal to GOOD men of any race.

  6. Well, Danielle, you sure touched a lot of nerves this time. What a wonderful choice of topic!My two cents, as an old white guy: I think not only about how much more interracial marriage is happening now than when I was young in the Fifties, but also about how much more willing the average young white woman or man is to seriously consider such a union for her- or himself.It’s been a huge change — how huge, you can’t even imagine, if you haven’t been around long enough to see it with your own eyes. Books and films can’t convey it. And a lot of it has been because the two U.S. cultures, white and black, have grown a lot closer and enjoy and respect each other far, far more than they did in the Fifties.And I think it’s going to go on happening. The more we see interracial marriages, and babies in such marriages, the more it will just seem normal to us all, and the more people will be open to doing it themselves.You folks who are upset to see a black man marrying a white woman — you’ve helped me understand your feelings, for which I thank you, and I respect what you’re feeling. But you know, your grandkids are going to look at you one day, when you say something like that, and you’re going to see in their eyes that they think you’re full of it.Because that’s the way things are moving, and you can’t stop it from happening, any more than the Ku Klux Klan and the Nation of Islam and all those skinheads could.So, I dunno — maybe you’ll want to shed those feelings before that time comes, because you want your grandkids to respect you.Me, I’m glad we’re learning to love one another. It’s a joy to me! I’m only sorry I won’t live to see what the world is like when the change is complete.

  7. HF did date black women. He was down for this girl I knew in Memphis. She didn’t want the life and he married white.

  8. Black women, I have a secret. You must seek to find a man who treats you like a queen. Anything less is unacceptable. Doesn’t matter if his skin is black or white. As black women, we must lose our hang ups and lose the hate. Black women must learn to love themselves, despite the media portrayal of us and perceived black male rejection. Love yourselves first completely and good will follow.Peace.

  9. Anonymous Avatar

    @ AnonymousRegarding Lionel Ritche’s first wife and the black children. His first wife Brenda Ritche could not have kids so they adopted Nicole. Nicole is the product of a groupie and a band-mate of Lionel Ritche’s. They didn’t want Nicole and Ritchie and his wife were glad to adopt her as their own because they could not have any children.Just thought you should know.Peace.

  10. TBS, thank you for this post. your blog is usually on point, but this is one of the best posts i’ve read (i’m a new reader). i also want to thank everyone who commented. i agreed with aspects of what everyone was saying. nobody attacked anybody else and everyone expressed their viewpoints well. it’s nice to read and participate in things like this with other GROWN, MATURE, and INTELLIGENT people.

  11. A. Pearsons. Avatar
    A. Pearsons.

    Where I live I see black men with white women all the time. These dbr (damaged beyond repair) brothers intentionally try to get my attention so that I can see them with their white women it’s bizarre at best. Why do they care what I think?I once dated a a black man who is very successful, charismatic, and a Yale graduate. After nearly two years of dating in what I thought was a happy union he dumped my very dark (but I must say very pretty) behind so he could take a Halle Berry look-a-like to the Jack and Jill Ball. LOLHis friends did not think dark was lovely, he told me he didn’t agree with them, he lied. I was deeply hurt, I got over it. I am now happily married to a white man. I met my very handsome, sweet, successful, Ivy league graduate husband two years after that horrible learning experience. We now have great kids and I actually thank God that the black boyfriend let me go. Because to be honest it was like a HUGE WEIGHT was lifted off of me. Because when I was with him I was always on. Thinner than usual body, perfectly coiffed hair, always well groomed and polished nails, expensive perfume, classic never trendy cloths, flawless skin, well done make-up, perfect diction. Everything had to be perfect he said or he would call me on it later. When we went out I had to make sure I was current on important issues so I could be witty and smart. When we ate at restaurants I always ordered something light and delicate as to not seem piggish which was a word he used to describe me when I ordered waffles and ham. “Why not just the waffles?” he later asked me.However, when he was with his white girlfriend who I later met all she ever had to do was be white. She also met and married someone white and extremely wealthy. Where is that black boyfriend right now? He is dating a very light bright sister who I am sure is under the same *gotta be perfect* stress I was under when I was with him.So ladies, like roslynholcomb and Evia at http://www.blackfemaleinterracialmarriage.com/2008/12/living-well-marriage-etc.html …said these black men do not belong to us and why would I want anyone who does not want me?? HUH?? Get over it and start seeing men in the global village as dating and marrying material otherwise you might end up alone, and bitter waiting for a brother to come around. Your self worth is not and never was wrapped up into what others do or say.The contract is now null in void!!!

  12. Anonymous Avatar

    The black woman is god. Any man who doesn’t understand that…then tough titties.

  13. If Barack was married to a white woman I would have still voted for him because I think he will make a great president and I didn’t agree with McCain’s policies. But to be honest I would have voted for him with a sigh. I’m tired of seeing the white women touted as the epitome of beauty and class by black and white men. Most succesful white men do not marry black women who are not professionals. The first black president with a white wife somehow that picture doesn’t seem right.

  14. great posts!this is changing as more interracial couples loom and as the biracial obama becomes more heroic/idyllic etc…alsothe wf is not a liability for black republikkkans, ie j.c. watts,et al…as they seek white voters primarily…peacealicia banksOUTLOOKhttp://aliciabanks.blogspot.com

  15. Anonymous Avatar

    Oh who cares, black women are coming up so do not be stressed out about this crap. Just like somebody noted, we are about to have a black First lady and two little black girls as First daughters, people all over the world are going to be looking at black women differently and from a positive perspective, I have hope about this and I see postive things for us in the future. We have come along way as a race and Im proud that black girls are achieving in college but we have a long way to go until everybody does get a chance at a quality education. I understand the need to feel desirable and to be looked at as beautiful but looks aren’t everything,lets teach them how to love themselves and feel desirable and confident, lets bulid each other’s esteem instead of bringing each other down. How many black women have I heard hate on each other or on other beautiful black successful females? Too many times to remember. Black women, we are coming up and we are being looked at differently by others, now lets look at ourselves differently.

  16. Hey Black Snob, this is my first time to your blog. I like the article and I see your points. To the others, while I never saw black men as “our men” I still do get that knee jerk reaction when I see them with non-black women, particularly white women. It’s not the class of “white” women they choose to marry, it’s the well known intra-racist rational behind their usually deliberate choice. This is still very painful or disturbing for many black women, and by understanding I might add. Especially when black men, or black looking men are in the world view, and in this view for younger generations of black children to ponder with. I personally think black women are doing a remarkable job of swallowing this phenomenon. Of course, we are always being taught to be “strong” mules and adapt…. all while other non-black female ethnicities would have been rightfully consoled if it was happening to them instead. Just my opi.Therefore, no one can not deny the still growing disparity in black male/black female IR dating. This is one of the main reasons why I would urge black women to also consider their IR options. However, not all black women are interested, or able to date outside their race. these women should also be respected for their choice or even their skepticism.Many women in non-black ethnicities will tell you they rather not date outside their particular race. No one gives them grief about that rightful decision. In fact, we all know they can afford to make such a choice because they don’t have the limited compatibility or disparity issues black women face in finding a mate of the same race. Which again brings the obvious reasons why black women would be un-wise to claim black men and refuse to date outside the race. And yet, I still find that obvious reason to also be down right cheerless either way you look at it. Just my two cents. Don’t want to be misunderstood or ruffle any ones feathers.

  17. Not going to write a book because I’m honestly sick of debating this… I don’t care so much that HFJ is married to a white woman.I do care that he tried to pimp us into voting for him by appealing to his black constituency.Ask the white parents and family members of your white wife to go out and stand on street corners holding your signs and solicit people to vote for you.Lastly, it bothers me when people try to get on to black women for not accepting interracial dating. Like we should just get over it. These are our feelings. They are valid and should be respected just as much as those who support interracial dating. Just because you like it doesn’t mean I automatically have to too. But I will respect your opinion as long as you respect mine.

  18. WOW.Amazing post and equally amazing comments.Thank you, TBS for such an intricate post. It helps other black people, non-Americans like me get a little understand of what is going on.I won’t pretend. I love that Barack has Michelle, a black woman, and I love that Michelle has Barack. black love. just love it.

  19. Anonymous Avatar

    La Incognita,Thank you for making the point that it’s fine and dandy for a WW to exclusively date white men, but if a sista is only wants a brotha, somehow she deserves to be alone because she won’t cross the color line. I rarely hear people mention this. It’s something that’s always pissed me off. As if non-black men are lining up to marry black women. All we have to do is let Tiger and Harold be, cross over, and we’ll have a husband and some tan kids. Give me a break.

  20. Oh no, I’ve always had a crush on Harold Ford…

  21. Michelle’s brother is married to a white woman? His children look black. Are they from a first marriage?

  22. “Lastly, it bothers me when people try to get on to black women for not accepting interracial dating. Like we should just get over it. These are our feelings. They are valid and should be respected just as much as those who support interracial dating.”I’d be the last person to be dismissive of someone’s feelings. You’re right, they’re your feelings and their valid. My point is, are they benefitting you? Are they making you feel better? Are they elevating and/or empowering you? If not, would it not be in your best interest to try to rid yourself of them? Hey, maybe not. Wear the hairshirt if you choose, but don’t blame it on anyone else but yourself. You’ve chosen to feel this way. “…but if a sista is only wants a brotha, somehow she deserves to be alone because she won’t cross the color line. I rarely hear people mention this. It’s something that’s always pissed me off. As if non-black men are lining up to marry black women.”What white women do or don’t want is pretty much irrelevant to the conversation. Their blues aren’t like ours. After all, we’re not white women. I don’t really have a helluva lot of interest in what they do or what their choices are. I do know for a fact that there’s not a woman on this planet of any race who can’t have a good man if she wants one. Simple mathematics bears this out. There are only 15 million black women on this planet. There are THREE BILLION MEN. These men range in colors all across the rainbow. Your choice. And yes, non-black men are lining up to marry black women and any other woman they can get. Men want attractive women. Fortunately for us, the definition of attractive varies from man to man. But I guarantee you nobody will find you attractive if you don’t believe they will. This is the headgame of the century. We’ve allowed a bunch of losers to deny our inherent femininity to the point that we don’t even believe in it anymore. What a freaking pity. But as I said. Hey, if weeping, moaning and gnashing your teeth every time you see a black man with a woman of another race is working for you, by all means continue to do it. On the other hand, if you’re ready and willing to deprogram yourself, I’ll be more than happy to give you some direction. Trust me, it may well be the most liberating thing you’ve ever done.

  23. Anonymous Avatar

    I agree with both Incognita and the anymous at 6:41. I personally don’t care who they date. @ Roslyn: How is it liberating just to date inter-racial. I hate it when people make is sound like oh this will be the best thing in the world for you. I’m glad you are happy with your white husband but it’s not for everyone let us be clear on that. And no black women are considered last for inter-racial dating let us get that clear as well. I got more educated black men asking me out along with hispanic but never white men. I’m now engaged to a wonderful black man who I’m going to marry after I finish my residence. He’s an attorney I met when I was on my first date with a white man who I was set up with on a blind date threw a friend who was talking about I need to expand my options. He saved me when the white guy got very angry with me just because he found out he wasn’t going to get any on the first date. I’ve been with him ever since. Personally why shouldn’t I get what I want which was an educated black man just like my daddy and guest what I got it.Also Evia a moron she bashes black men left and right.

  24. Please don’t put words in my mouth. Never have I said it was liberating to date IR. (In fact, I never told anyone on this thread to date IR. I pointed out that there are billions of men on this planet. Most of them are some variation of brown/black.)I DID say it’s liberating to come to the realization that we don’t own black men and they don’t own us. Their choices in mates is nothing more than that, their choices. It is not, nor should it be a reflection nor rejection of us. We are separate sentient human beings and time and past time that we started acting like it. Black men don’t owe us anything. It’s incumbent upon us to understand this, and that realization is liberating. When you don’t expect anything, you’re never disappointed. “And no black women are considered last for inter-racial dating let us get that clear as well.”Perhaps you should limit your statement to your own experiences. I’ve never been considered last for dating/mating with anyone I’ve been interested in. Whether black women as a group are considered last is really not germane. You’re not dating/mating as a group. Unless you believe in polyamory you only need one. I didn’t mention Evia in my posts. I think anyone who knows me knows that I think Evia is crazy as all shit.

  25. “Personally why shouldn’t I get what I want which was an educated black man just like my daddy and guest what I got it.”Who said you shouldn’t get what you want? Certainly not me. If I’m not mistaken this conversation was about black women being hurt and offended by black men who choose women of other races. I’ve simply said that it’s time black women stop wearing the albatross of black male ownership around their neck. I’m not sure how you interpreted my message of empowerment to mean that you shouldn’t have whatever it is that you want in a mate. I certainly never said anything of the sort.

  26. Anonymous Avatar

    Keep waiting for that brother you want he’ll be there. Yeah right! 20 black women to one black man who is marriage material. But he knows he is in high demand so he plays with the black women’s heart and feelings, sexes her up and leaves her ass for a white girl.

  27. Anonymous Avatar

    @ Roslyn: Thanks for clarifying yourself Roslyn. I was heated from other things also I referring to the person who was talking about Evia and referring her blog early that wasn’t at you. LOL she is crazy as all Shit. As for being hurt by black men going with other women I didn’t care when I was single and I sure as hell don’t care now.

  28. Anonymous Avatar

    @ Anonymous: We sound very bitter don’t we?

  29. I do now know if Craig Robinson's wife is the mother of those kids. If they are, DAMN< those are some strong genes, because those kids do not look bi-racial in anyway.

  30. @roslyn: There are only 15 million black women on the planet? huh? That makes no sense. Maybe you meant to say in the USA, because when you throw in the Caribbean, South America, AFRICA!!!, not to mention the multitudes in London, Paris, and elsewhere I think you might come up with a few more than that… but, nevertheless, your point is well taken. Personally, I’ve never been a “our black men” kinda gal. It sounds weird to me, in fact, but I do get it about the internalized sense of not being valued like I know I should be and projecting that resentment on others. I know the only person it’s been limiting is me and after reading these comments I realize that it’s high time for me to show some discipline and check myself when I have knee-jerky bitter responses to the Elins of the world. Mostly I don’t hate on brothers in interracial relationships, but I do mock. Truth is, I need to be working on my own damn self and getting what I need and not presume to judge the life and motivations some random people (bm and ww) I’ve never met.

  31. *Sigh*Why is this still such a big issue?I have to agree with Roslyn and Daphne. People should be allowed to be with who they so choose. Is it any better from my perspective as a Black male? Nope!I see plenty of Black women (the really good ones especially) who prefer to date white males exclusively. It goes both ways. Black men are often limited to what’s left… (or we are expected to be limited to that by society).People with brown skin are not a monolith…. although we are always expected to be. (it’s annoying).Some Black men find that Black women (the bulk of them) don’t match what they are looking for… don’t share the same world view, the same values, and don’t have the same cultural tastes. That’s the case for me. Although I don’t have a strict racial preference. If I dated… I would date all the colors of the rainbow…. as long as they are what I am looking for. But that doesn’t mean I don’t have my preferences.Not that there aren’t any good Black women… It’s just that looking tends to be more labor intensive. I don’t date (have not for several years- I don’t have time for women right now…nor am I even able to date)…. but when I do, i’m not going to limit myself. Why should I. Why should anyone?I actually feel that my race limits me quite a bit unfortunately… and an even bigger problem across the board (regardless of the race of the women) is money/socio-economics. For men… How much money you earn will dictate who you can date more than anything else. That’s a common thread between all women… Black, White, Asian, Hispanic,….etc.This problem is just as much about socio-economics as it is about race. Only Black males who have reached a certain socio-economic level have the means to really date outside (for quality women anyway). These must be the gentlemen who you all are talking about… from the comments, it seems pretty clear that you aren’t talking about Black men who earn less than $50,000 or even $40,000 a year. When you’re a broke graduate student like me, there are really no dating options. This is one of the many reasons why I am unable to date. (another reason is that my standards are probably unrealistic… but I will not just date anyone who’s available… she has to fit the template).My point is… it’s actually harder for Black men to date interracially than it is for Black women. I have not dated much (since i’m not an idiot NBA player or drug dealer…or idiot Rap star and don’t have a lot of money) I’ve “dated out” once..and from my experience…. and just from general life experiences through my lens… Black men have to spend a lot of time showing/convincing non-Black women that we won’t murder them…. rape them, rob them, steal their property, kidnap them, that we aren’t criminals, that we aren’t all the monsters that the media has taught the World that we are. And that’s just phase 1. Once you pass that hurdle…in the next phase we have to prove that we have reached a certain income level that will make us worthy of dating someone’s white, asian, hispanic, biracial, east Indian daughter.. Most of it has to do with winning the approval of their family…. not just the woman you want to date. Often…it’s the family that prevents women from dating Black men. Black men are still monsters (I have Rap Culture, Black Culture, the NBA and the NFL, and the media to thank for that).Black women don’t have such a burden. Not even close. In fact… no one has a burden like this. White men, Asian men…have it pretty nice. They have the pick of the litter (even if they are broke…they can rely on the inherent benefit of doubt that society reserves for them). It’s why I stay locked in my apartment. Just living/waking up everyday as a Black man is f***ing exhausting…even without all of that nonsense. This is why I have chosen to be dateless most…essentially all of my adult life (although economics have had a lot to do with it). If I chose to do so… I could go to modern day brothels (nightclubs) and date what’s left…what the successful men leave me… but I’d be even more f****g miserable. So I’d rather wait until i’m 45 (I know… I might be earning enough money by then… but then i’ll be too old).Try being a Black man for about 30 days. Half of you would probably be considering suicide by week 4.My advice…. Black women… if you don’t find what you’re looking for among Black men (and I agree…most Black men probably aren’t worth your time), then date out. I’ve always wondered why more Black women don’t broaden their horizons. There are plenty of White males who want to date you. I work with some of them… We tease one another about our preferences… they find it amusing.

  32. Anonymous Avatar

    I am with Roslynn, It is high time we viewed oursleves as good women looking for good men and drop all the other tags. This may not be fair, we should get what we want but guess what we as Black people probably know more than most that life isnt fair. Do you want to be loved or do you want to be loved by a black man? Personally I think if enough of us left there would be less competition for those who need a Black man to be happy. We are kind of performing a service…lol…

  33. Snob Fan fo' real Avatar
    Snob Fan fo’ real

    It’s clear Harold Ford Jr. wouldn’t win an election held on this blog! He’s losing this thing by a Nixon-in-72-style landslide!!So, not only is it clear IR dating is a hot topic–and almost uniformly disagreed with–it’s also electoral suicide. @Roslyn:It’s clear to me you’ve made your peace with a Husband that dosen’t share your ethnic heritage.But for the overwhelming majority of female respondents to this post, a shared ethnicity is the price they’re willing to pay in the ordeal of looking/waiting for/securing a partner. Which begs a question–a few questions–asked respectfully, and hopefully answerable as such.We’d all agree, I think, that love is worth little in a world without values. We all need people in our lives who prize and value our intellect, our beauty and our abilities.But are cultural connections, a shared ethnic heritage, worth less to you than your marriage?In effect, is a love you pledge to share for the rest of your life enough to ‘balance’ the loss of an ethnicity you’ve carried for the first half of your life?Aren’t African American participants in interracial relationships proudly saying yes to that question? And lastly, is there anything horrible about wanting both: a loving, life-long relationship with a partner that shares your ethnic make up?

  34. Losing your ethnicity because you marry interracially?! That is ridiculous. Granted, I’ve never been caught up in being black (I’ve been caught up in being me), but losing ones ethnicity due to marrying outside of your race is cockamamie.

  35. Anonymous Avatar

    I think this issue is constantly being debated because blacks seem to be only ones willingly breeding themselves out. Whether whites are doing this in larger numbers or not, they are still the majority. Not only are they the majority, but have generational wealth on multinational levels when we weren't allowed to READ. Their culture dominates on every level, etc. I could go on. Bottom line: the strength of their community is not hurt by a percentage of individuals who seek other. The problem is see now is a segment of black women making "other" THE option as if white men are their saviors. And I notice whenever there is a discussion of a black man/woman, the woman is always uplifted at the expense of the man. Case & point: the Obamas. "She's really running things". When did it become cute amongst black women to castrate our men? We take the "strong black woman" mantra a little too seriously, then wonder why many of us are waking up alone. Then there's black men of a certain socioeconomic level. White (or anything but black) is right. Where do they get this idea they have arrived when they are disconnected from their women? When they are pouring money right back into white communities? Any man who says "I do not want a woman who mirrors my black self" is a man who HATES himself. That self-hatred is not admired by the whites they seek so desperately to appease. We have long been pitied for our lack of pride. Pride stems from the strength of our families, not from slogans and afro picks. Yet we refuse to wake up. I'll also put it another way: Interracial dating is not the key to racial harmony. What you'll often find in the black/white pairing especially is that black really becomes transparent. Notice how those married to whites felt no particular attachment to the idea of black community? It's usually the black participant who thinks along the "colorless" lines, while the white partner is free to be white. It's evident in the new debate over the identities of biracial people, those who gravitate toward white swear it is "unfair to chose", but will put out "but I'm also WHITE" in a nanosecond. Predictable.

  36. Could someone please explain to me why I keep saying that black women need to get over this idea of owning black men, and people keep coming back with questions about interracial dating. I have not encouraged anyone to give up their desire for a black man. If that’s what you want, then by all means go for it. My point is, you don’t own them and they don’t owe you anything. I think too many black women believe that their loyalty to black men means that those black men should reciprocate in kind. Like some type of contract. Unfortunately, for a contract to exist both sides must agree, and it’s apparent to me, that this is so not the case. “In effect, is a love you pledge to share for the rest of your life enough to ‘balance’ the loss of an ethnicity you’ve carried for the first half of your life?”Since when does marrying someone mean you lose your ethnicity? I was a black woman for 35 years before I married my husband. There’s a better than 100% chance that I’ll be a black woman until the day I die. “Aren’t African American participants in interracial relationships proudly saying yes to that question?”Uh no. I’m saying, I met a great guy, who is a great husband, lover and friend. He’s also a fabulous husband and he’ll be my partner until the day I die. “And lastly, is there anything horrible about wanting both: a loving, life-long relationship with a partner that shares your ethnic make up?”If that’s what you want, that’s what you want. Now please explain to me what that has to do with having beef with the fact that there are black men out there who don’t feel the same way? You have every right to feel whatever you feel. That only becomes a problem when you become upset because someone else made different choices. Wanting to strangle Woods’ wife, or voting against HFJr. simply because his wife isn’t black. Getting upset every time you see a black man with a woman who isn’t black. This is the behavior that is, IMO, detrimental to black women. Deciding that you only want a black partner is your own decision. Deciding that you only want a black partner is fine. Getting upset because there are black men who don’t feel the same way is pure fucknuttery.

  37. “Interracial dating is not the key to racial harmony.”And who said it was supposed to be? “Notice how those married to whites felt no particular attachment to the idea of black community?”What black community? To my mind a “community” is a place where one feels safe, honored and respected. From what I’ve observed most black women would have a hard time finding that in most black “communities.” For most of us it’s a place where we have to fear for our dignity and respect, if not our very lives. “Where do they get this idea they have arrived when they are disconnected from their women?”Again with the notion of ownership. How can anyone be free when they are owned by someone else or believe they have ownership of others? Sounds like a recipe for pain, rejection and unnecessary angst to me.

  38. “But are cultural connections, a shared ethnic heritage, worth less to you than your marriage?”Sorry, I missed this question. Perhaps you can expound on what you mean by shared ethnic heritage and I can answer better. I like and am interested in my ethnic heritage and the history of my family and people. It was not necessary for me, however, that my husband share the same heritage. For instance, I’ve dated men from the Caribbean, some from Central America, and more than a few from the continent of Africa. All these men were black or at least some variation of brown, but our ethnic heritage couldn’t have been more different. I found dating them far more ‘foreign’ and had to make more adjustments than I ever did dating a white man. Especially my husband who grew up in the same small town that I did. I think it’s a strange notion to choose our mates based on ethnic heritage, but, of course, that’s your choice. For me, I was more interested in the man’s values, upbringing and worldview. YMMV, but that’s how I saw it.

  39. Anonymous Avatar

    @ Angry IndependentI don’t believe this is a question about economics because many of the black men referred to here that dated out dated and married white women with little or no money or education.

  40. Anonymous Avatar

    Date who you want, but I do find it annoying when you see black and white women who are friends and the white woman wants ALL the men. It never fails they think they are ENTITLED to first look.We really do need to get over tying our self worth to outside forces that we have no control over.PERSONALLY – I’m the shit! My beautifully scented, carmel colored skin will melt in your hands. My gleaming almond shaped, brown eyes can see right through to your soul. A conversation with me will leave you wanting more. White women, black women, asian women, I hold my own. Thank you.

  41. Breeding out? Loss of ethnicity and identity? WTF??? Are you kidding me? Who says that? I’m not a dog and certainly not trying to figure out the blood quantum of my future kids. If you don’t like the way my kids look or the fact that my husband is Native American – go take a long walk off a short cliff for all I care. Having a mixed heritage makes this country so great. Being from a bi-cultural background illustrates the central theme of our nation. The convergence of people. Since when did we corner the market on being Black? I didn’t think I had to prove it; I’m a proud African American woman who instill the ideas and history and culture of my family of my people to my children; I know my husband will do the same.I don’t think IR is liberating because I don’t think its a card to be played in a game. If you find someone who is your equal and you love each other – don’t you think its okay to commit to them? Should it matter if they are of another color or culture?I don’t sneer at BM who date out and or care. Whatever. I do think we as BW should be raising our stock and individually examining our self worth.

  42. Anonymous Avatar

    Roselyn I agree with you about certain things, like the ownership issue, this is true we don’t technically “own” anybody but infact we share a race. I think that the main frustration with black women is that once black men choose to marry white women they end up bashing their own race: including their mothers, sisters, cousins, nieces etc. It’s almost as if they have a grudge against us so they talk crap behinf our backs, this is what I’ve heard. Many white men who choose to marry black women do not disrespect white women as a result, infact, they are quite curtious and respectful. Anybody who talks crap about their own mother, sisters, nieces, etc. has an issue, bottom line, no way to excuse that kind of behavior. If they want to marry a white woman that is their right, and talking about black women badly is also a right, but it doesn’t make it right.

  43. Anonymous Avatar

    Also Roslyn, I commend you for having a positive attitude about interracial relationships and marriage, I think that people shouldn’t be so caught up with another’s happiness. I had to include that piece about black men’s attitudes towards black women once they are married to the white wife of their choice because it is alarmingly popular and everyone knows that alot of black men diss black women and also they degrade them to, even in the humiliation of other races. I had a classmate who hated, hated, hated black girls and he was…black. He talked loudly and openly about how stupid and loud we were, how ignorant and not up to par, and he did so in front of me and another black girl in a classroom of asians, whites, and latinos. This is much to common and it is hurtful, we were little teenagers and this kind of negativity can shape how you think of yourself even if it is the farthest thing from the truth. His rants have made me bitter towards black men, not because they date white, but because they hate black, black women in particular. I asked myself, how will he treat his birracial daughter when she comes along someday? I hope nothing less than he’d treat her mother. This is just sad and it is very common.

  44. Anonymous Avatar

    @ Roslyn again,sorry to keep pressing you but can you share one thing with me? Does your husband(who im assuming is white) talk trash about white women? I have a white uncle who is married to my black aunt and NEVER have I heard him refer to a white woman as anything less than a lady. I also have someone in my family who is black and he has a white girlfriend, sadly, this is not true in his case, I have heard hims say negative things against dark-skinned women because he loves light skin. My thing is people should see all colors as equal and beautiful, and even if they don’t they do not have to make others feel bad about themselves, that does not change anything. By reading your comments, you have not said anything bad about black men and I commend you for that, it is not necessary, you love who you love and do not care what others think, that is amazing. I wish I had your viewpoint because I know there are alot of black men who do not demean black women, in my family there are black men who I love and look up to also. I have ran into too many black men though, who are just rude, rude, rude, not to me but to black women in general. People say that I am very nice-looking, so Im pretty much accepted by all races, I’ve dated both a black and white boy, Im not discriminating.

  45. “It’s evident in the new debate over the identities of biracial people, those who gravitate toward white swear it is “unfair to chose”, but will put out “but I’m also WHITE” in a nanosecond. Predictable.“Yes Anony, the hypocrisy is daunting. I personally think some people in general use the colorblind rhetoric to insult other people’s intelligence in order to hide their own racially motivated agendas. It’s also not so hard to figure out why some black/white biracial people shun from being “labeled” with “blackness” exclusively. If it was ever possible for them to be mistakenly “labeled” as “white”, would some of them be so fast to correct you? With respect to Roslyn and some of the other black women in IR’s, they do make valid points, and at least you could agree to disagree. They are not like some of the other crazies, or one in particular.

  46. Here are a couple of my old blog postings on the subject…Wrote them last year…<A HREF="http://mirroronamerica.blogspot.com/2007/08/interracial-relationships-still.html“ REL=”nofollow”>My thoughts on interracial relationships<A HREF="http://mirroronamerica.blogspot.com/2007/07/interracial-couple-weds-despite-racist.html“ REL=”nofollow”>Interracial couples still face challenges

  47. Anon@9:12amI was referring to the economic position of the man… It has a lot to do with socio-economic position and upward mobility. Black men especially have to reach a certain level.The female (black or white) doesn’t necessarily have a socio-economic standard to meet. Men aren’t looking at that so much… It especially wouldn’t be an issue for Tiger Woods…a multi-millionaire. Why would he care how much money his white wife earned?Women are so used to thinking this way when judging men (judging based on income) that they assume that men do the same… and this is not necessarily the case. It may be on the list for us… but it’s not necessarily at the top.

  48. “@ Roslyn again,sorry to keep pressing you but can you share one thing with me? Does your husband(who im assuming is white) talk trash about white women?”No, my husband doesn’t talk trash about white (or any) group of women. (Except the ladies on the View, he can only handle so much. -lol-)I would not tolerate a man who did such a thing. I’ve met white men who did that and I got as far away from them as humanly possible. What we have to understand is that these men are misogynistic as all hell. They hate ALL women. So again, it’s not personal. These guys have problems with all women and we should be grateful that they prefer some other group. Indeed we should probably pity them. I remember having a co-worker once who felt compelled to tell me that her husband chose her because black women don’t have nice hair. I think she was trying to get my goat. I was sincerely puzzled and asked, “You mean your marriage is based on…hair???” I can’t really take credit for it, but she filed for divorce shortly thereafter.

  49. Snob Fan fo' real Avatar
    Snob Fan fo’ real

    @ RoslynWithout remapping the landscape of our respective points, let me say that we should, as clear headed, hard working, God fearing, Snob-loving black folks agree to disagree on the importance of Hard Ford’s wife as it pertains to his chance for electoral success in the future. And, just as apparent, the importance of loving someone one might share an ethnicity with. Also, I think we can both agree that black women should be loved at levels that far exceed the numbers that we all know, read and overhear all to well. And lastly, I would hope that nothing I’ve posted here makes you feel defensive about you own situation. I want to adhere to the edict that I’m certain you heard on your wedding day: What God has joined together, let no Man put asunder.That said– that written rather–let me say this: I am a young black man who is absolutely 100% determined to seek, find, court and commit to a black woman. I don’t know what the value of that statement is, other than to let readers of this blog know that those of us who aren’t cloaked in pathologies aren’t all out chasing white girls. For some us, the color of our partners matters. And one more thing: if you don’t think that having the First Lady of the United States–and this tall beauty in particular–isn’t going to drastically change the desirability rate for African American women in this country, than I say to you, as a man, respectfully, that you got another thing coming. Here’s a prediction: we’re about a year away from some serious, post-Halle, high-profile inter-racial Hollywood dating being splayed out on the covers of those supermarket tabloids. Now, to address a statement someone made earlier…. “It’s evident in the new debate over the identities of biracial people, those who gravitate toward white swear it is “unfair to chose”, but will put out “but I’m also WHITE” in a nanosecond. Predictable.”Pass the Cherry wine and let Bishop bless the crackers, ’cause that line right there is the word, the truth and the light!One can re-brand themselves biracial (or Cablasion) all they want to when the sun’s shining. But on a dark night in Jasper Texas, what on God’s green earth does that self-defintion have to do with how you’re treated by the majority? And if it worked, if simply recasting yourself as a member of some satellite ethnicity within the African American diaspora–an ‘adjunct Negro’, if you will–kept you safe from the racist slings and arrows–wouldn’t black folks have done that years ago? Aren’t West Indian immigrants already doing this now? Does it offer any added insulation from racism?Did being a second generation Haitian american keep Abner Louima any safer on that terrible night in Brooklyn?

  50. @ Angry Independent:”Black men have to spend a lot of time showing/convincing non-Black women that we won’t murder them…. rape them, rob them, steal their property, kidnap them, that we aren’t criminals, that we aren’t all the monsters that the media has taught the World that we are. And that’s just phase 1. Once you pass that hurdle…in the next phase we have to prove that we have reached a certain income level that will make us worthy of dating someone’s white, asian, hispanic, biracial, east Indian daughter..” My question to you is why would you even go through all this?

Leave a reply to The Angry Independent Cancel reply